and get the "twinkies" while you can. ♪ ♪ [music playing] single knockout double gerri: the fiscal fiscal cliff talks today was all kumbaya. turning around their losing streak, that's all it was, talk. we have seen this before. the debt ceiling debates with the same promise of reaching a deal. it all starts to fall apart. once it's time to get downto the gritty details and the making of tough choices.

businesses notice and they are sitting on the sidelines or that's not stopping the unions from going after them. the latest casualty is hostess, the maker of "twinkies." with the bakers union on strike. greg rayborn warned that unless the bakers would compromise, the company would fall apart. the workers didn'listen. with more on this, we have seen stephen hayes, senior writer of the weekly standard. great having here. lots of pleasant people. happy faces. do you buy? >> in one word, n i do not. i think this is exactly what you get at the very beginning stages of these talks. for the exact reasons you suggest. no one is getting any details right now. all they agreed on was the basic framework for moving forward. whereas speaker boehner said we need to do this in the short term and we need to get beyond the fiscal cliff.

in 2013 come we can talk about serious tax reform and serious entitlement reform. it is sad that tte predent wants to do that. he has been insting on these rate hikes. gerri: listen to the president talking about compromise. >> our challenge is to make sure that we are able to cooperate together. work together. find common ground together. make tough compromises together. build some consensus. in order to do the peoples business. what folks are looking for, and i think all of us agree, we are looking for action. they want to see we are focused on them and not focus on politics here in washington. gerri: compromise. he says the word compromise. why don't you buy? >> he said the word compromise, but he also said our challenge is to find compromise. he's right about that. there's a historyy there. we are not making these judgments based on nothing. we go back, we will do the debt

ceiling, the way out of the debt ceiling negotiations, to create a super committee. going to the super committee and look at wat they did. they worked on a come they couldn't come to an agreement. they cannot find a compromise. so they punted and kicked it down the fiscal cliff. now, you're facing this fiscal cliff. they will revisit these issues in 2013 and put in some longer term structural reforms both on the tax side and the entitlement side. i am pessimistic that we will see anything serious done in the short-term and long-term. gerri: i want to ask your opinn about an outlier opinion, americans for tax refo, grover norquist. he said the president will definitely improve extending the tax cuts for everybody. now, is he just saying what to see happen?

or do you think he might have a point? >> no, i'm skeptical. look at how much time the president has spent. on the campaign trail, but then afterwards as well. assisting on these rate hikes. he focused on a point of disagreement last week with house republicans. yes talked about it again. you have house democrats and senate democrats who have campaigned and are insisting upon these rate hikes. i also think it's a good political issue. gerri: let's talk about the polls. richard trumka said there iso fiscal cliff. what we are facing is an obstacle course within a manufactured crisis. we make it back? >> i don't know? what is manufactured? we have been in the most

predictable crisis. and you seem to have a lack of will on the part of the president actually get something done. that is the fundamental problem. gerri: i have asked you about one other comment. this from patty murray. this is that taxing the wealthy is essentially more important than taxing the budget. now coming of the senate doesn't have any track record of passing budgets. am i the only person who is shocked by this? >> no. we can consult recent history to understand we haven't had a budget and more than three years , and that taxing the wealthy is one one of the things the democrats think what'll solve the problem. you're talking about $80 billion a year. $800 billion over 10 years. when you are trying to fill a hole that is $1.4 trillion, more or less of a the deficit. the math just doesn't work.

you can also go back and make a simple point that this is going to cost jobs. if we raise taxes on the wealthy, you're talking about the congressional budget office. just the tech sites on the wealthy are going to cost up to 200,000 jobs. ernst & young said that it will cost 700,000 jobs. is this a time that we actually want to be costing jobs and the economy struggling to regain footing? gerri: some people say we are early in a recession. we've been talking about it a lot. the fiscal cliff will cost the average american family $3500. think about that. though he won't say? to become a thank you for coming on tonight. had a great weekend. always fun to have you on the shelf. >> you or having me, gerri. gerri: now we want to know what you think. here's our question. what is the real agenda of senate democrats? solving the debt crisis or sticki it to the rich?

log onto gerriwillis.com. both on the right-hand side of the screen and side of the screen and i will show the results at the end of the show. as i mentioned earlier, hostess is closing all of its plants and laying off 1800 -- 18,500 workers after failing to reach a deal with the bakers union. taxpayers could end up putting a massive tax bill if the workers file for unemployment benefits and get them for the maximum number of weeks. that cost taxpayers $430 million, including the same unit workers that forced the company to close. with more on this is our labor economist for heritage. james, great heavy on the to have you on the show. we've been talking about this for some time the old company promised that he would liquidate the company is these workers didn't come back to work. i think that's exactly what happened. were you surprised? >> not really. the problem is with the labor unions. they make the company is less nimble, less competitive, less competitive and they have to get an agreement with the unions and

they don't do that. gerri: the tragedy is that this represented about 5000 workers compared to the 180,000 of lose their jobs. a small group of people standing in the way in bringing and bringing the company to its knees and ultimately liquidation. >> that's exactly right. again, that's the problem with humans. cabinet post host is that american airlines and general motors. they make it less competitive. companies invest less. they earn less. they create fewer jobs. in the end, they go out of business. gerri: the president of this bakery union, he says the crisis facing hostess brands is a result of nearly a decade of financial and operational mismanagement resulted in two bankruptcies, mountains of debt, declining sales, and plus

markets. they tended to resolve the mess by attacking most valuable asset, the workers. this makes no sense. it is hurting workers. he blamed the workers they blame wall street. and you fail the company, making a come to its knees. >> he's clearly trying to shift the blame. this is a company that is on the edge. very competitive marketplace. americans are becoming more health-conscious. products like "twinkies" are not always on top of the menu anymore. it's a company that's been in trouble. theowner and other nion were begging to come back. they said this company is in real trouble. they said, you know what?

we think you are bluffing, we're going to do it anyway. now, 18,000 workers are going to lose their jobs. gerri: this is an industry with famously narrow margins and we reported on the show earlier that it will probably cost taxpayers some 438 or $39 million in unemployment benefits. also costs for medicaid for these people. the ramifications go so far beyond that. >> absolutely. what can happen to see your? he makes about $200,000 a year and he gets to keep his job. a total lack of accountability on the part of union. gerri: here is what richard trumka said. this is the second time according him on this show. he says what is happening with

hostess is a microcosm of what is happening with america. as people make themselves rich rich by making america four. would he say? >> i think this is ridiculous. look at the number of companies have gone bankrupt like u.s. airlines. general motors, chrysler. the list goes on and on. that is when union membership has hit another record low this year. they organize these companies and they make them uncompetitive. they make them less flexible. the companies go ut of siness. gerri: he made that point earlier. this is the biggest workforce in the country. some 1 million workers, they want to be unionized. is it possible to just the opposite is happening now? we got a long-term trend of decline in membership, now unions are starting to gain ascendancy?

>> it's hard to say. that is out of a workforce that is out of the million workers. 160 or so worrs, those who want a union, yes, there is a reason why they have lost every election they have had. they can't find one store where there is a majority of wal-mart employees that want to join the union. you look at hostess, it's not hard to see why not. gerri: interesting. have a great weekend. james, always a pleasure to have you on the show. a lot more to come, including another taxpayer bailout on the horizon. this time, the fha. next, it's not just the wealthy that will be paying more in taxes if we go over the fiscal cliff. i will break down how much it will cost you. and we took our cameras out of the street to ask people what they think about the fiscal cliff. we wl show you some answers throughout the show starting now. >> i think they will need to sit down and talk about what needs to be done on both sides. most importantly, i think it

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gerri: in the debate over taxes and the fiscal cliff, all the talk is pretty much high-level stuff. we talk about tax rates, tax brackets, but not dollars and cents. today and tonight, right here, i'm going to talk about dollars and cents. let me tell you, if you have a weak stomach, you might want to go lay down. here's what we are talking about in terms of tax hikes. if we go over the fiscal cliff, the dollars and cents, and by that i mean the increase are going to pay in taxes, not the whole kahuna. take a look at this chart. here is what we are talking

about. if you make a hundred thousand to a million dollars from your going to pay $38,602 additional in taxes. if you make 200,000 or 500,000 from 11,000. early 12,000 additional taxes. if you make 100,000 or more, nearly $600,000 in taxes or more. if you are making a median income come you can expect to pay $22,000 in taxes just because of the fiscal cliff. that is 500,000 to every million me closer to $39,000. $39,000, i did not make that up. for all that i have paid and the lost momentum in the economy, while we gain in terms of revenue? no one says raising taxes on the rich would do anything to reduce

the deficit. raisin taxes to current levels for those families making over $250,000 a year would only raise $824 billion in revenue. not in one year, but over a decade. we have a trillion dollars in debt each and every year. not enough to undo the sequester or so the company -- for the country, that is, on the right track financially. it is becoming increasingly clear is that the spending problem. the nation's federal tax revenues are rising. look at this. we are approaching the levels just before the great recession. nobody seems to be talking about what we need to heal. cut spending? congress? not a chance. that is what i think. drop me an e-mail at gerri@foxbussiness.com.

>> coming up on "the willis report", our taxpayers would have come to the rescue again? executive vp is here with the answers next. and you ever feel like you're being watched? it could be google. find out how the internet giant is tracking your every move. and ever since the states legalize recreational use of pot, a rush is growing for this industry and our expert tells you how you can cash in. you how you can cash in. we are on the case ne [ ale announcer ] you are a business pro. governor of getting it done. you know how to dance... with a deadline. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle... and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. this is awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is, business pro. yes, it is. go national. go like a pro.

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gerri: attention taxpayers, you could be on the hook for another bailout. the federal housing

administration posting a massive 18 billion-dollar deficit, prompting fears that the agenc could require a taxpayer bailout for the first time in its history. for more, we have a resident scholar at the american enterprise institute and former fannie mae vice president. welcome back to the show. always great to have you here. i can't get over the fact, you know, we saw this coming, it was like a freight train that was on the tracks for a long time. we are finally here. and i just can't believe we're going to have to bail this agency out. were there any other options? to absolutely. this could have be avoided. fha keeps dging the hole deeper. expanding and expanding trying to grow its way out of this. that is usually a recipe for disaster in the financial services industry. we have seen it time and time again. easy to do because it's other people's money.

rri: now one in six fha loans are having this problem. is it possible for us to get back to a private marketplace? should the government be in the business of trying to encourage people to own homes? >> basically we need to get back to sound lending. fha likes to make people think that what they're doing today is what they did literall 40 or 50 years ago. they talked about in the 1950s they came up with this way to do little, down payment when they successfully. well, they were doing it successfully, except the down payment was 20%. the loan payment was 21 years, and the housing debt ratio was 15%. today, they have a 4% down payment. their average debt ratio is 35%. interest rates are half of what they were in 1954. gerri: you make a very good

point. he gets to the politics of the issue. how can we flip the switch on fha and freddie mac when they are one of the you out there that are actually underwriting loans with a low down payment requirement. is there anyway to develop political will and put an end to this? >> i have been saying for three years the private sector doesn't like to beat itself against the wall. it has to go through openings. the government with 90% of the market and all the regulation that has been put in place, it has basically not provided any opening for the first step is that the fha should trim. this should improve their underwriting standards. they should do that responsibly. once it does that, some of its readers going on, other changes that regulators are doing, the

private sector would come back. this is not going to happen overnight, but you have to have an environment that allows it to happen. i think congress has to do something. they have to do something to bring fha in. gerri: that idea, you know, helping low-income people, forget about it. i want to ask you quickly, what is really a pr effort going on tomake people want to keep fha. here is shaun donovan saying that they have weathered the storm by taking the most aggressive and sweeping action in the history of reform. trying to make the point today that we have more money coming. everything is going to be okay. americans, go back to sleep, keep sending us your taxpayer dollars. >> absolutely not. what they are not mentioning, and they did this a year ago when they came out with a report, they knew the projected

house price numbers were completely wrong. they basically ignore that. then they made a correction this time to the tune of $10 billion. well, this time they are using interest rates from july, and they are basically saying that mortgage rates are going to double by the third quarter of 2014. well, there was a ttle event that happened in september with the feds. that's not going to happ. that's going to cost them another 15 or $20 billion. instead of being a 16 billion-dollar hole, this is a 30 billion-dollar hole. it's always the next year, don't worry, next year will bail us out, and it never fails to mount. gerri: okay, so they're lying about the numbers even. >> if they were a private company from the sec would be all over them. gerri: strong stuff. we appreciate your time, we hope you come back. he won coming up next, a

republican governor opposed to obamacare. but his status unknown anyway. though brian will be here to tell us. and the fbi is not just reading david petraeus's e-mails. he was one of a thousand people whose gmail accounts the federal government went after. >> i think they will finally resolve it, hopefully before the end of the year. get together, three to one. [ female announcer ] want to spend less and retire with more? then don't get nickle and dimed by high cost investments and annoying account fees. at e-trad our free easy-to-u online tools and experienced retirement specialists can help you build a personalized plan. and with our no annual fee iras

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gerri: states across the country are scrambling to set up health

insurance exchanges. just one of the many mandates in obamacare. the extended today's deadline for states comply with the law for another month. twenty states have already said they will not create their own exchanges. rather, they will leave believe it to the federal government to run. mississippi, despite the governor's opposition to the lot, is going ahead with the exchange. earlier i sat down with bill brian and i asked him why his state is going ahead. >> it's a unique situation. we have an elected commissioner of insurance here in the state of mississippi. a good friend of mine. we just fundamentally disagree with secretary sebelius, i'm sorry to say that we would be setting up an insurance exchange. when we first started, we were all for it. we were thinking about private-based insurance exchange that would help small businesses come together and try and low lower their cost of insurance. that has now evolved into what i believe is a caveat for

obamacare into the state of mississippi that could lead to some 300,000 mississippians on medicaid. gerri: at the end of the day, it looks like, correct me if i'm wrong, mississippi could be ultimately on the hook for fun and a lot of that want once we get through the first year of obamacare. >> of course, we will. there's never been a progra that they will take control of. the state and switch idea coming we have $20 million from the federal government several years ago to fund the exchange. to believe that somehow they will now say, oh, you control it, we won't have influence on her, it's just nonsense. they're going to control it. i joke about this when they insert the bridge over the river choir. we are building this bridge at our own disadvantage, if you will. they are telling us to trust us. the federal government is going to let you run it. and i don't believe that's going

to happen. gerri: i know a lot of people also will oppose obamacare and yet critics of yours might say that you just want the $20 million to get to sit at the exchange. would he say that? >> i was a governor when we accepted the $20 million. i know what federal government funding will do. sometimes there is change and blocks attached to it. i would've would ertainly, perhaps, if i had been governor and thought through this situation, once we knew that obamacare was coming -- in the early days, this was talking about a totally different situation. now people say, oh, you took the money but you don't want to -- in the early days, they were showing us something nice and warm and friendly to businesses. now, it has beco something else. they showed us a totally different thing. we are just not good at doing that. the one well, the animal

metaphors -- i'm trying to think about what's going on at the federal level. [laughter] the president is battling out over the budget. the national debt. i don't know how to describe it. it's more like a snake swallowing a turtle. this is important to you. we are going to offer this fiscal cliff. >> i hope so. i hope we are careful in doing so. i remember when george h. w. bush that read my lips at the republican national convention. i was on the floor when it happened. a few years later, the democrats convinced him that if you let us raise taxes, we will have an equal amount of cuts in the government. taxes took place or cuts never really got there. i would hope that we are careful with this that we have going on right now to make sure that we are not raising taxes on middle-class and obamacare is the largest tax increase on the middle class.

they said we are going to lose 800,000 jobs in americbecause of this. restaurants are putting surcharges on meals. i talked to the president last night and he believes at least 10% of his members will go out of business here in mississippi. gerri: is absolutely tragic fo some businesses. we have ceos talking about how they're going to fire people, i want you to talk about something very specific about this. a lot of talk about sequestration. this would impact states severely, and it would hit mississippi pretty darn hard. 7.6% mississippi, only 6.6 nationwide. would he make of that? how important is it that we avert sequestration? >> is very important. so troubling to know the amount of waste in the federal

government. i was state auditor for 11 years. we cut nearly half a billion dollars out of state billion dollars when i was lieutenant governor. nobody is talking about looking at cutting government spending and looking at entitlement programs are into the first thing they want to do is say, we're going to cutdefense spending. the next war, i think we will have to fight with what we got and we have to come with what we now have. we need to be prepared for that. cutting defense spending is the worst possible thing we can do. not only for the economy of the state and nation, but also for our future safety and security for the united states and its people. i think it's a horrible idea. we need to do away with it very quickly. gerri: we will see on enough if we are able to avert sequestration and stay off the fiscal cliff. but i have to tell you, i feel like we are more than a turtle than a hair. governor, thank you for coming on tonight. we appreciate your time. >> thank you so much, gerri.

gerri: when we come back, marijuana becoming a big political headline. it became legal in two states this last month. we will have the rest coming out. and how big brother spying on you. don't go away

gerri: is big brother watching online? google says the government surveillance on the internet is rising. take a wild guess at which country comes in at number one? it's us, the united states. by far the most request of any other country. the search giant says it has been asked to reveal more user data to the feds than ever fore. so what is the government looking for? eric joins me now, a senior editor for all things digital. explain me what is going on in a nutshell. i can't quite get my hands on the fact that the feds can come after me through google. >> they can do so, but it's usually a matter of following the law.

they have a criminal investigation underway, they can go and get a warrant, or in certain cases, get approval of a federal prosecutor, pends on the age of the communication. we will get to that in a second. they can ask for your user data ends the message is. gerri: google goes along with it because they have to respond to this. >> they are following the law. gerri: this is something because of general petraeus and his e-mails. his e-mails with his girlfriend. one of the funny things about this is they canceled that account in an intelligent way. >> what they did was they created a gmail account but they both had the password too. instead of sending e-mails, like normal people would, they would leave drafts in there for each other. one would type of the message and leave it there, and the other would sign in and leave a

draft message back. they created a situation where the messages were never being seen by any possible party. gerri: how can attest to that information? >> like any other way, you would, you know, in theory, i don't think this would happen here, but in theory, the feds did show up with a warrant and said they are investigating a criminal matter and. gerri: you are saying there were no warnings because general petraeus was a general permit an important guy running the cia. he pbably has no mercy whatsoever. >> i would compare it to a bank sang that they have to be audited. when you are in that position, i'm guessing that you don't have much of a right to personal privacy because your lines could be checked by powers. gerri: do people watching the ow need to be worried about this? >> i don't thinko. what usually happens is trillions of e-mail messages are

going over the internet every day. gerri: my security and peace of mind, is in the fact that there are so many e-mails, is that right? >> no one would be looking at your e-mail unless you are subject to criminal investigation of some kind. maybe her drug dealer or something. >> there really isn't any privacy. you can encrypt your e-mail. pretty good privacy is a lot of one's that people use. that is one complication. the other things you be doing generally, i would be more worried of criminals hacking my e-mail account. that kind of thing happens all the time. so i would be more worried about that than the government actually looking in your e-mail account. what you wanted in that case is make sure its argument here. look up something that brings

the second password that shows up on your phone the changes every 30 seconds. gerri: i am worried about government looking at my e-mail. it's interesting how this whole thing just kind of blew up and now, in this country, more people than ever are being, you know, surveillance. >> the most important thing we they have to think about, the one question is the communications act that dates back to when e-mail is still new and nobody had all these messages, dates back to 1986. gerri: thank you for coming on. something else to worry about. just in case the fiscal cliff wasn't enough. still to come, by "two cents more". annow it's legal to smoke pot in two states now, and i'm not talking about marijuana. if you don't live in the rocky mountains, you can copd makes it hard to breathe,

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gerri: some are calling it the

gerri: grass, mary jane, marijuana goes by lot of names. folks are calling it a good alternative investment. believe it or not. colorado and washington together, he first dates to legalize ecreational use of marijuana. a growing industry that is worth a ton of dough. my next guest says there are many legal ways to get in on the action. joining me now is the president and ceo of a company in california. we are talking about miracle matter monitor. how you invest in a?

>> thank you for having me on your show. well, there is a plethora of different ways to look at the market. one of the easiest ways is you want to be an active investor or a passive investor. the second question that you ask yourself is do i want to be close to what i like to work in an ancillary operipheral business. it would be a business like ours, hydroponic technologies or a legal firm or something else. gerri: insurance, lawyers, they come and play here, too, right? >> that's exactly right. pretty much any ancillary business pc surrounding any other commodity is beginning to emerge around us. gerri: all right.

500 of 3000 medical marijuana dispensaries have shut down this year. so it seems to me at the end of the day, it might not be that safe of investment. >> you you definitely have to take into consideration the political risks. when you're making a judgment of whether or not you want to invest in this industry coming up with the normal business that exists. competition from those types of things. the additional consideration you need to apply r political race. federal iervention in that nd of thing. what you just mentioned was a crackdown on medical cannabis dispensaries. that mostly happens in the localities in municipalities where the local government wasn't family or supported it. gerri: what about this other issue? states are saying it's okay to use recreational marijuana and approvals that people walk around on the street can carry so much marijuana. it seems to me if yu want when princeton it's not, it's a big problem. it is stil illegal at the

federal level. >> that is he onomy we live in today. the discrepancy between state laws and federal laws. what we are seeing is an extra domino that is tipping. this is a slow erosion of happens at the end of a prohibition. my assessment and where i'm begging my daughter is ultimately on legalization on one. gerri: wow, i'm not in favor of that. i don't think i'm the only one who feels that way. i'm just not sure. except for medical marijuana, but it should be a legal job, like alcohol or, you know, you name it. we think that? >> i mean, i know from the patient's standpoint and i've used it from a medical end point. i found it having much more efficacy than the oxycontin or the vicodin that they send her home. gerri: goodness gracious.

>> you know, one of our focuses us always been on the equipment side. cultivation is taking place regardless. that is not even to mention industrial hemp is a csin of that. a potential catalyst for growth in the country's. gerri: gerri: thank you for coming on and talking about it. we appreciate your time. we will be right back with my "two cents more" and answer to the question of the day. what's the real agenda of the senate democrats. solving the crisis are scking it to the rich? >> i think it's a potential issue of the economy. we hope to get together and resolve the issue. >> i do thk we need to take away the bush tax cuts. i don't think we should go over ♪

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♪ gerri: ashington democratic senator patty murray will soon take over as senate budget committee chair. and she is already making headlines. first she said we should drive over the fiscal cliff. now she says, raisin taxes is a bigger priority than passing a budget. what do you think? is this the rel agenda of senate democrats sticking it to the rich instead of solving the debt crisis? we answered the question on gerriwillis.com. three-pers sets of and the debt crisis. 97 percent of you agree with me, they just wa to stick to the rich finally tonight, reality's masking the son in the face. the car company finally admitted it will not be its sales goal. earlier this ceo said nissan will sell 20,000 leases in 2012.

so far, less than 7,000 to. to be fair, that is just for october. have a couple of months ago. you think anyone will asked santa for a least? in fact, nissan will struggle to match the more than 9600 sold in all of 2011, one of the many reasons could be that $36,000 price tag. the detroit news has said they're working on a lower-priced model for next year, but there is good news for the automaker. the nissan leaf is currently the best-selling electric car in the u.s. think about it. this car wich sold fewer than seven dozen people, the best-selling. of course does not what the present one is here. >> more research and incentives. we can break our dependence on oil with biofuels and become the first country to have a million electric vehicles on the road by 2015. [applause] gerri: maybe somebody else needs to face reality. that's my "2 cents more." and that's it for